The coffin at Central Union Church in Honolulu was draped in an American flag beneath a framed photo of Pat Saiki, the late Republican congresswoman. The afternoon sun on Nov. 7 illuminated the dozens of flowers arrayed around her portrait as Kahu Kenneth Makuakāne, the senior pastor at Kawaiahaʻo Church, gave the opening oli.
Gov. Josh Green and First Lady Jaime Green were among those who honored Saiki, 96, who also served in the Hawaiʻi Legislature. So were former Gov. Linda Lingle and state House Minority Floor Leader Diamond Garcia, both Republicans. Prominent Democrats U.S. Rep. Jill Tokuda, former Gov. John Waiheʻe and former Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann were there too. U.S. Rep. Ed Case had a U.S. flag flown over the nation’s Capitol presented to the grieving Saiki family.
It was a touching, classy, bipartisan service of remembrance for the longtime Republican who died Sept. 30 and a reminder of a time when members of both parties came together for a common purpose.
Two days after Saiki’s service, Green sat down with Civil Beat to reflect on the Nov. 3 election that saw Democrats reclaim the Congress and many governorships and legislatures.
It had been less than a week since he had retaken the governor’s seat, winning with 71.2% of the vote, the largest margin ever for Hawaiʻi governor. But he didn’t gloat. He spoke at some length about the Saiki gathering. Bipartisanship was still very much on his mind.
Rather than divide the country even more, the Democratic sweep of Congress as well as a Democratic flip of numerous governor’s offices will serve to force the political sides to work together in new ways, Green said. He thinks the message from voters, nationally and locally, is that they want their elected officials to get things done for the good of the country, not continue partisan bickering.
He plans to work across the aisle in a number of ways, including as a faculty member of the Governor’s Academy, which he’ll do alongside former President Bill Clinton and through his work with the Western Governors Association and National Governors Association. He’s never been shy about working with Trump administration officials, even if they’re on opposite ends of the political spectrum.
Green’s agenda will be a big one, some of it contentious. Health care. Disaster relief. Infrastructure. Addressing tariffs and other federal policies that affect affordability. And issues of concern to Native Hawaiians.
In the interview, Green revealed that both Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Secretary of Education Linda McMahon had reached out to him, hoping to find middle ground on DEI issues involving Native Hawaiians.
He also affirmed that Kawaihae on the Big Island remains the leading candidate to become Hawaiʻi’s second harbor, in part because of its proximity to the Pōhakuloa Training Area.
“Pōhakuloa is already there, and I don’t mean to inflame anybody, but that base is going to very likely remain,” the governor said.
To pursue his plans, Green plans to stay in communication with the White House.
Even now, he said, he has the number for Trump’s new chief of staff, Stephen Miller, punched into his cellphone. Markwayne Mullin, the Department of Homeland Security secretary, “is literally in my speed dial.”
“It works for me because if they know that I at least can be a voice of reason in a blue state, a lot of times they’re looking for one or two blue states to meet them in the middle somewhere,” he says.
“It would be great to get back to a time where the Pat Saikis of the world and maybe the Brian Schatzes and the Josh Greens of the world don’t mind so much working with people of different ideological stripes. But still, having said all that, people have to be nice to each other, and she was nice to people, and that I think was one of the things I took away.”
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity. We began it by reflecting on the Nov. 3 election.
It’s now been nearly a week since this remarkable election. Many call it a “bluenami,” a tsunami, a rout. What are you thinking as both the leader of Hawai‘i and of the Democratic Party of Hawaiʻi?
I think it was a great day for the United States. I was particularly happy to see so much new leadership that’s diverse. I got to meet some of the incoming governors this summer, and that included the incoming governor of Texas and New Mexico. They’re just extraordinary people, and to see more women leaders, to see a Native American governor (in New Mexico) and an African American governor in Georgia, an Hispanic governor in Texas. I mean, it’s an incredible thing, and I think it provides a lot of balance for the country.
I think that this is a chance for the country to reset to a degree at the governor level, and then at the Senate and House level, it’s a positive thing. It’s a positive balance between the legislative and the executive branch at the federal level, for sure. It will force everyone to really debate some of the bigger questions.
I think that they can revisit and review what decisions were made about Medicaid, for example. There’s a lot of work that now will have to be more collegial, or else everything will get frozen. And I think Americans are going to demand some action, like ending the war. That’ll happen, I believe. Getting rid of the tariffs would be a good move for our economy. So a lot of balance will occur. But I was so happy for the nation, and I’m particularly thankful to the people of Hawaiʻi for letting me and (First Lady) Jaime keep serving.
What do you think that might mean for Hawaiʻi in the next couple years or so? Will you be able to do some things differently with your budget, or not be playing defense so much?
I think that is all correct. I think first our congressional delegation will be powered up a notch because they will have better chairships or leadership posts. I think each and every one of them, all four of them, are going to have more clout, and that is extraordinary because the deals that get made in Washington are based on seniority and based on being in the majority, and we have amped ourselves in both places So we will get more appropriations for things we need.
It’ll probably make it easier, I hope, to reach some kind of detente with the federal government on the military leases. That is likely we will have a little bit more leverage to do something sane.
And then on the governor level, it’s pretty extraordinary because as I go from my first term into a second term, I become one of the senior governors rather than one of the junior governors. The role I got last year to chair the Western Governors Association will likely also propel me to be in a leadership role at the National Governors Association level. I’m already on the executive committee, and they’re asking me to consider additional leadership positions.
So, I get to take some of the ideas that we’ve championed here that tend to be nonpartisan and present them to all the states, and I think that will mean that I’ll get a little bit more love from the other governors and from all sorts of people across the planet because they take us a little more seriously, especially when you get into a second term.
You were mentioning having more clout, and certainly with your medical degree and also the fact that Hawaiʻi has had to face so many natural disasters, can the governors work as a block to insist that the federal government support Medicaid and more FEMA funding?
It’s an absolute yes. That’s exactly what we do. We have several committees where we’ll have a health committee chair, which I’ve been doing for Western and National Governors (Associations), and we’re able to give them our opinions, and we always have one from each party, so it’s balanced, so that it doesn’t appear like a partisan position. Because if it’s a partisan position, it kind of just goes through the meat grinder and nothing happens.
I’m going to try to bridge the gap with a series of health proposals. One of them is Health Beyond Healthcare, which I’ve rolled out. It speaks to the things that you’ve seen me talk about a lot, which is the social aspects of healthcare. Bringing down harm, doing harm reduction to expand people’s lifespan, making sure people have access to their insurance. We’ve funded the gap on the Affordable Care Act, things like that, which help governors. You know, all governors worry about losses to their Medicaid budget, for example. That’s something that we can easily unite on.
A lot of the red state governors were horrified by some of the potential impact for the president’s large bill, because those cuts mean a lot of extra uncompensated care, loss of rural hospitals and clinics, and these are the things that I will try to restore with this bipartisan team.
That’s the One Big Beautiful Bill Act you’re referring to?
Yes, I just can’t say it.
It sounds like you think that you and Hawaiʻi are in a pretty good position with the Democratic majority now to really accomplish some things, or turn around some things that were lost before. Is there anything specific that you can talk about? I know you’re probably working on your budget for the coming session.
A ton, yes. Too many things even for one interview, so I’m sure we’re going to have ongoing conversations. Let me get into some specifics. Interestingly, and this could shock you, both (Secretary) Bobby Kennedy and Secretary (Linda) McMahon have reached out to me to try to find some compromise ground on the way they approach Hawaiian institutions. Secretary Kennedy asked if we could work together to preserve the Native Hawaiian health programs, and so we’ve given him some legal language. It is very much in the spirit of what has been done for the Native American communities. It’s just that we haven’t had formal recognition, as you know.
But he reached out, which was stunning to me, about two weeks ago, and two or three days ago, I sat here in Hawaiʻi with Secretary McMahon, who was on a visit, and she was seeing a Hawaiian immersion school. And again, I explained to her that Hawaiʻi and specifically Hawaiians should not be excluded from any support at the federal level or state level because they are clearly a part of our ethnicity, and we are a diverse state because about 25% of our people are Hawaiian. And I’m showing them that this is not, and should not fall into some other concept of DEI as it’s been described in the East. That and because there’s more balance, and because they need to reach across the aisle a little more, we have a better chance to win these arguments.
Now on finances, absolutely, there are big questions out there that I need help from the federal government with, and I’m going to push right now. Sen. (Brian) Schatz reached out to me a month or two ago and said it’s time for us to fund resiliency hubs. It was something that was already on my checklist, so I’ve already put at least $20 million in the budget to start resiliency hubs. I’d like to do six of them in the state, and we’ll seek major federal support to do resiliency hubs in six strategic parts of our state, so that when we have our next series of hurricanes or floods or fires, we’re better positioned than we were. That’s one.
I’d like to expand the Honolulu Harbor, and I’m asking for $300 million-plus to harden the harbor because if we were ever to lose Honolulu Harbor, I think you guys totally understand we would be on on the clock probably 12 to 14 days where we would not be able to sustain food and life. So we’d have to fly everything, and it would be devastating.
I also intend in the second term to pursue a major additional harbor, to expand one of our harbors, and it’ll be up to the people where we do that. I would recommend we do it likely on a neighbor island, so it’s separated geographically in case a storm comes through. If we did that, it’s certainly going to exceed a billion dollars, and we would need to have federal support. Probably support in partnership with the military, and that’s something else that I calculate to the new leadership.
The president’s probably going to be seeking some new secretaries. I’m guessing that a few of them are going to retire or go to the private sector or be asked to go to the private sector soon, and you know there’ll be some new people, but I’m going to keep an even keel. I’m not going to flinch if we do or don’t have Secretary Kennedy. If we do or don’t have the head of the Department of Defense in (Pete) Hegseth. I’m going to keep doing what I do, which is trying to make sure that they know that we value support, but we have our values, our distinct approach, and so far that’s worked.
You know, we’re five for five on the disasters. We’ve at least gotten part of our asks for emergency support for each of them. We still could get more, no doubt, but on the wildfire, we’ve received well over a billion dollars of support, and expect more. That’s true also of the Kona lows, and the hurricanes, and the earthquake. We still are waiting for individual assistance for Lala, for example, but that’s such a small number compared to the larger, the over billion dollars for Maui. We’re talking about $14.4 million for the individual assistance for Big Island, and I will simply include that in our state budget if necessary.
Because you asked the question about FEMA, the way the feds appear to be approaching FEMA is they appear to be funding, when you ask politely, the public assistance needs, like when a road or a hospital goes down, and covering 75% of that. But unless there is individual assistance that a state can’t afford, they’ve kind of paused. And though I would always like more support when we have a disaster, I’m also mindful that I want to win the big battles, like the debris clearance was over a billion dollars on Maui. It would be terrible to lose that one and win a $14 million argument. You see what I mean?
In terms of that second harbor — we’ve reported the Big Island seems likely, and perhaps on the west side — Kawaihae has been mentioned — and in part its proximity to Pōhakuloa. Is that, in your view, still the likely place, the most likely place for a second harbor, a major harbor like Honolulu Harbor?
I would say it’s got the pole position right now, based on just what I’ve heard and talked about, because exactly what you point out. Geographically, if a big storm comes through, it’s not going to likely hit both the northern part of Big Island or the northwest part of Big Island and Oʻahu. So there’s that.
Plus, because Pōhakuloa is already there, and I don’t mean to inflame anybody, but that base is going to very likely remain. Even if they did it against our will, it’s going to stay there. I don’t want that to happen. I do not want condemnation to occur. I’m right there with our congressional delegation and others. I don’t want the military to condemn land, but that base will be there.
Therefore, they will have a reason to invest in the Big Island, especially this harbor, which gives us security for more than just military security. It’s really, for me, about humanitarian security because, honestly, I focus a lot more on just trying to help people and our humanitarian needs and our affordability needs than our military needs. I appreciate the military, but I try to make sure that we get more bang for our buck whenever they’re around.
How are you feeling about the Legislature? It seems like nothing much changed there politically, but if you’ve got Congress now helping, how about the local guys?
I was very happy for the legislative leaders that retained their posts. There was a little bit of change, when the Republican caucus dropped like 30%. I mean, that is some change. It was small, but it got smaller.
I am not a partisan bender of any kind. I congratulated (Rep.) Diamond (Garcia) and was honored to attend Pat Saiki’s memorial service on Saturday to show that I really care about my Republican and conservative friends, like I care about our liberal Democratic friends.
But that did change some. A couple of their people left. It was interesting. Hawaiʻi Kai flipped, and the (House) seat now reoccupied by Micah Aiu. So there was some change. The leadership does seem to be intact. I have a great relationship with them. I will say, Kauaʻi is extraordinarily well represented now, as I have an incoming new partner who is already dear to me. I so appreciate Derek Kawakami — Mayor Kawakami — because we jousted a bit, as you guys know, when I was lieutenant governor, and he was in his first term as mayor, over how we should actually operationalize our response to Covid.
But also we sharpened each other’s blades, so to speak. We each brought passion to the way he wanted people to respond on Kauaʻi and make sure that there was almost no spread, and I was able to make the case of the global public health questions. And we’re better as a state for it. That’s how you will see us complement each other as governor and lieutenant governor. Having a mayor who’s already been an executive for eight years means we’re seamless. I’m glad to have someone with that level of experience.
I’m not going to lie, it was a tough year. There was some heartache watching what Sylvia (Luke) went through. I’m sure that process will play out appropriately. But having a new lieutenant governor so I can just focus is important. It was sometimes a challenge to keep full focus because there’s a lot of politics around and politics in the air in general, just because of an election, and that can be a distraction.
I tried to stay focused. I stayed put. I barely moved from the two miles around Oʻahu because I knew that people needed some stability. But I’m grateful to have that, and I’m in a really good relationship with the speaker and Senate president. So it should go well for us as we’re going to have the same agenda, I think.
Is there anything in the Legislature in particular that you see coming up this year that you’re going to need to deal with?
There are a couple major things. Let’s go back to something I mentioned before: the military leases. If there’s an impasse between the federal government and our office, and it is our office that has to negotiate this, there’s no question about that. I will take input from everyone, OHA, Hawaiian leaders, environmental leaders, everybody. But I’m going to have to negotiate the final details of that agreement.
If we reach an impasse, though, there is some discussion about extending the leases if the Legislature wants to do that, and I would support that rather than seeing something that’s more punitive, like a condemnation. I think that it’s important that we not have an antagonism with the feds, and I also don’t want us to go forward in a way that appears punitive, because then our people will rise up. They won’t be happy with the relationship we have with the military, and it has to be family. These are family members. Maybe they’re like cousins instead of brothers and sisters on occasion because they’ve moved here from the mainland. But they are still relatives, and they have to be respected, and they have to respect us, so we may have that.
I think that this is a young Legislature. There’s been a lot of turnover. That’s another interesting thing. You know, people say there hasn’t been any change, but I would say maybe 70% of the Legislature is new from six or eight years ago. I mean, that’s a lot of change. You saw some of the old guard, like Sen. Les Ihara, leave. He was replaced by a young up and comer (Jackson Sayama), and that’s something you’re probably going to see.
I think the Legislature is going to hopefully have a robust conversation about gambling, I’d prefer that the people decide that, personally — this is just so you hear from me. I think something of that magnitude is something I’d appreciate if our whole society weighed in on to decide what they value. And if there ever is gaming, for example, those monies should go to housing, and making sure that we have enough money for Department of Hawaiian Home Lands so that everyone gets off the list. That’s a personal goal of mine in the next term — that by 2030, that there’s no one remaining on the waiting list for a DHHL lot. But in order to do those kinds of big things, you have to also have resources, and you have to lean into problems.
So they’ll take that up, I’m pretty sure. I think that you will see there has to be a meaningful discussion about how far the rail goes and the subsidy for it. I think that’s a responsible thing to debate because that general excise tax question is a big one for the people of Hawaiʻi.
I will work closely with them to make sure that the people get a good deal. That’s going to be important to me, right? And I think that that would be a really big debate.
What lessons did you learn from your first term that you might be taking with you into your second term?
I learned that I have to lean into the big issues of our time, or things won’t happen. And I also absolutely recognize that I should get as much input as I can. For example, when we did the emergency proclamations on housing, we could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by being much clearer that it was about affordable housing. That was not intentional. I was just pushing in because we need so much housing, and I learned that people feel very strongly about about words and about exactly what you’re talking about. So I’ll try to be clearer.
As I have this debate with many about what our energy future is, I am absolutely committed to a fully renewable future. (Green has pushed for a liquified natural gas project to serve as a “bridge” between current oil-based electric generation and future renewable energy.) I want exactly what the Civil Beat readers want and the people across the state want. But I will be more clear. I hope I do a much better job explaining why a bridge that uses a little less oil makes sense to get us to that future and what that actually means.
And I’ll say this to you candidly: having those kinds of conversations about where we honestly are with the military, where we honestly are on energy, what we will face in healthcare if we don’t improve matters. I will explain it better because, on face value, somebody might just say, “Well, why would you ever use LNG? It’s another fossil fuel.”
But when I explain that without some kind of bridge and resources, we could lose all of our solar programs. When I explain that, because the subsidies are dropping, and I don’t want us to be stuck on very dirty oil from Libya. When I explain that the end goal is the same, but the process requires some compromise. I will try to make it clearer what we’re doing, and so clarity is important.
I came in in 2022 as the ER doc that was just going to go after things like an ER doctor does, which is you charge into it. You’ve got to make a decision in six seconds, or someone’s going to die. And I still feel that way, but I also have a lot more social worker in me now after four years, where people know now that I’m there to nurture, like a social worker does so well, and there’s a little bit more of that in me.
I’m grateful to have had so much support. Our team got the support — it wasn’t me. It was this team that did all this work to get to whatever it was, 73% or whatever the electorate decided. You only get to that number when you are taking on the right issues: affordability, housing, and homelessness are among them. And so we haven’t talked about it. I’m grateful that we haven’t spent much time on it, but I will push back if I think we’re doing the right thing. Kauhale. People were suffering and struggling on the streets. We’ve now decreased homelessness by 13% statewide.
Will I do better? Always. I’ll do better if I’ve got good advice, but they haven’t yet understood. The auditor and those folks have not yet understood the catastrophic problem (homelessness) is to Medicaid and to the hospitals. They didn’t even begin to scratch the surface of that solution and how good it is to have thousands of people now off the street. So I will push in with innovative solutions, but we’ll try to have a really big conversation about it because now I can be a little bit more vocal. I am very sensitive, and you guys know it because I’ve called you personally to say I’m sensitive about this.
And I’m very sensitive, but now I’m in a little bit of a different space already, which is I’m going to be very expressive about what I think is right, and I’m going to be totally open to being persuaded to do new things or to even change our direction if it will help more people.
But I’m not going to wait because I’ve only been given this opportunity to serve to help people. That’s the purpose of this job, and so I’m going to try to help as many human beings as possible from now through 2030, and then I will hand the baton to whoever decides to take it up. And that’s what I learned.
I learned that some people that should be your deep allies sometimes forget. If I may, let me say this very specifically to some people that are a little even further to my left: We passed the climate impact fee. No one passed that in a generation. We settled the Navahine suit. We moved environmental policy like you can’t believe. Yet people still didn’t trust me that I would build safely new houses, and they blocked my housing programs.
Everyone should take a personal inventory and wonder why we haven’t moved further together when we have those opportunities. Because I’ve been, from my perspective, very cognizant of the value of our land, the need to protect our climate, and really be thoughtful about those who are struggling the most. So, I would love it if people took full inventory of all the things that our team did. And I think the election is a reflection that most people took a full inventory, and I’m going to be the governor for everybody.
But there were some people who still decided they couldn’t quite come to our side because they wanted lower taxes. They happened to forget I lowered taxes more than anyone in the history of Hawaiʻi because people get things stuck in their brain when they watch the wrong television show too often, and that is something I also want to work on. So you’ll see a lot more social media from me. You’ll see a lot more of these long-form conversations.
And I think it’s good because whether it’s the military leases or the energy question or housing, these are really complicated issues. Which, after four years as lieutenant governor and four years as governor, I do feel I have a pretty good grasp of all the different arguments. There’s not a perfect answer, but I have a very good grasp, and that’s what experience does offer. So I hope to use it, but you’re going to see a new dynamic subset of Cabinet members. I think everyone’s going to be happy about them.
I’ll just end where I started. I’m so grateful to people for giving me a chance to do this for four more years because it takes about two years to get fully up to speed with your team and new ideas and navigate the relationship with the Legislature. Now we’ve got this four years to deliver on all the things that people have asked for, and I’m excited.
